Pre-tender positioning sounds like a “nice to have” until you lose a shortlist you should have made, simply because the client didn’t know you.
That’s what this episode of Chasing The Win with Susan Mercer, Business Development Manager at ADCO Constructions, really comes down to. Before the tender drops, you’re either building enough trust and alignment to be genuinely in the game, or you’re just another name that popped up on a document.
Start with the client, not the contractor
When I asked Susan what effective positioning looks like in practice, she went straight to relationships, but not the surface-level kind. Susan sees her role as getting to know the client and the project properly, and helping the client get to know the people who will actually deliver the work.
Susan made the point that it starts with the client getting to know her, but she’s not the one delivering the project. So the real work is understanding who the client is, what they value, what ticks boxes for them, and what they are genuinely looking for in a contractor. If you’re going to be in a relationship for one to three years on a project, you want alignment from the start, not a mismatch you only discover once you’re already committed.
We also talked about how different clients are driven by different things. Some are programme-driven and will do a lot to protect time. Others are bottom line driven and will trade time to protect cost. Susan’s view was that you can often sense it, but you should never rely on assumptions when you can ask better questions.
One of Susan’s go-to questions is, “What keeps you awake at night?” It can feel direct, but it gets you past the polite layer quickly. When a client tells you their biggest worry is safety on site, you now have something specific you can respond to with real intent, instead of guessing what matters.
Your first interaction is a preview of delivery
Susan also talked about the first meeting as a preview of what the client will get if they choose you. It’s not just an introduction, it’s the start of a working relationship.
She wants the client to meet more than just the business development person. She wants them to meet the proposed delivery team, because they’re the ones who will be on the ground making decisions and solving problems. Susan also wants the client to meet someone senior they can escalate issues to, like the state manager, because issues will happen. Pretending otherwise doesn’t build confidence, but showing the client how issues will be handled does.
What I really liked is that Susan doesn’t see her job as “done” once the project moves into delivery. She steps back in to check whether the client is getting what she promised. That follow-through is part of positioning too, because it protects trust for the next opportunity.
You can’t win from an open tender list alone
Susan shared a story from early in her career that perfectly explains why pre-tender positioning matters. She saw an EOI advertised, knew her organisation could deliver, put together a strong response, and still didn’t make the shortlist. When she later spoke to someone inside the department, they told her plainly, “We’d never heard of you before.”
On paper, yes, they could have delivered the project, but nobody knew them. Nobody trusted them. The shortlist had already been shaped around organisations the client had confidence in.
This is why I keep saying technology can’t replace pursuit. You can’t have AI scanning tender websites and call it business development. In a competitive market, the difference is often subjective. It’s the small biases, the unspoken preferences, and the tiny details that are keeping someone awake at night. You only learn that by building relationships and asking better questions.
Personalities and culture decide more than we admit
Susan also said something that I think a lot of people know, but don’t always say out loud. If a project is relatively straightforward, there are plenty of contractors who can build it. The deciding factor often becomes who the client actually wants to work with for the next three years.
Personalities matter. Culture matters. The client is choosing who they want to interact with every day, and that is not a small decision.
Susan asks clients directly if there is anyone they would prefer not to work with. She’s had honest answers, and those answers have influenced the team ADCO puts forward in the tender. It’s not negative, it’s realistic. People are people, and not everyone works well together. If you can uncover that early, you can avoid unnecessary tension later.
Your trade partner relationships are part of your positioning
Another part of this conversation I loved was Susan’s focus on relationships beyond the client. At ADCO, relationships run across clients, consultants, internal teams, and trade partners, and those relationships matter when it comes to tendering.
Susan talked about wanting to know that preferred consultants and trade partners will align with them, and that comes down to trust and past experience. She was also clear that it’s not about the lowest price. It’s about reliability and performance.
If a trade partner underperforms, it reflects on the contractor. If a trade partner goes out of business mid-project, the disruption is enormous. Programme delays, extra cost, and reputational damage with the client. Strong relationships and consistent performance are part of how you protect delivery, and delivery is part of how you protect your pipeline.
Shape the opportunity before probity drops
I asked Susan about shaping the opportunity before the probity curtain drops, because there are really two layers of tender strategy. There’s how you respond once the document lands, and then there’s how you position long before that.
Susan’s view was that you generally know about a project for a long time before it drops, often 12 months or more. That’s your window to understand why the project has been designed the way it has, what risks and opportunities have already been explored, what the budget and programme pressures are, and what concerns you’ll need to deal with during the tender.
She also made a great point about not wasting time proposing “brilliant” ideas that have already been put forward and rejected. If you don’t understand what matters to the client before probity drops, you should be questioning whether you know enough about the project to bid at all.
Intel only matters if it’s shared
We also talked about the gap I see in a lot of organisations, where business development and tendering aren’t integrated enough. People gather great intelligence, but it doesn’t make it into the tender response.
There’s no point building a pursuit plan and locking it in a drawer. The delivery team, estimators, design manager, and bid manager need it. Otherwise, it can’t influence strategy, solution development, or the way you respond.
Susan also shared that she doesn’t pretend to have all the answers. She uses the pursuit plan to ask questions of her team, and she spends time on site learning from delivery teams. She looks at what’s worked on other projects, why it worked, and what it achieved for the client, then carries those learnings into the next pursuit. That’s how intelligence becomes something real, not just notes from a coffee meeting.
Know when to walk away
Pre-tender and tender effort is resource-intensive, and Susan is learning to trust her gut more. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.
If the first you’ve heard about a major project is a month before tender and you’re well connected in the industry, Susan’s view is that you should be asking hard questions. Is the funding real? Are approvals in place? Are there dependencies that could stall it?
She also pointed out how often projects go to tender and then don’t proceed. That wasted effort across the industry is significant. Losing a tender hurts, but at least the project is going ahead with someone. Tendering a project that gets shelved is a different kind of frustration, and it’s something you need to factor into your decision-making.
Susan also said if other reputable tenderers start dropping out during the tender, don’t assume you’ve won. Ask why. They may know something you haven’t uncovered yet.
If you’re new, build your connections properly
For people new to the industry or new to a region, Susan suggested joining industry committees and attending networking events. Committees, in particular, can create deeper connections because you spend more time with people and build familiarity.
We also talked about being willing to ask for introductions, but only once you’ve built enough rapport that it feels genuine.
Susan referenced the idea that relationships take seven points of connection to build. That means you need to be intentional about follow-up, and you need to go into meetings with a plan. Don’t show up to a coffee with no agenda and expect it to magically turn into work.
These relationships take time, and they need to be genuine. You can’t meet someone once and expect to be handed an opportunity, but if you keep showing up and keep building trust, it does come back around.
The thrill of the chase and the reality of what gets built
To finish, Susan shared what she loves most about what she does: The thrill of the chase, and then seeing a project come to fruition.
This isn’t paperwork being pushed back and forth. It’s bricks and mortar. It’s hospitals, universities, shopping centres, and community spaces that real people use. Because when you strip it all back, that’s what pre-tender positioning is really about. You’re not just trying to win a document. You’re earning the right to deliver something that matters, with people you trust, for clients you align with.
LINKS:
Connect with Deb at Tender Plus
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Deb: [00:00:00] Thank you so much for joining us on Chasing the Win Susan Mercer business Development Manager for ADCO Construction. We are here to [00:01:00] chat about how to pursue opportunities prior to them actually landing in your inbox. You know, what is business development and pursuit really all about. And I'm, I'm really pleased that you agreed to join us, um, to give us your insights in, into what, what pursuit really means for a construction company, um, in Australia.
Deb: Well, before a tender is released. What does effective positioning actually look like in practise? How do you know sitting in front of a potential client if you're actually in the game or you're just on the radar?
Susan: It's an interesting one, Deb, because I see most of my role is about relationships with people and it's about getting to know our client and the project and then the client getting to know us and the people that are going to deliver that project for them.
Susan: So it's, it starts with them getting to know me, but I'm not the one [00:02:00] who's gonna deliver the project. Mm. So it's important for me to have put the proposed delivery team in front of the client. But it's also, well before that is me getting to know the client, who they are, what their values are, what ticks boxes for them, um, what they're really looking for in a contractor.
Susan: 'cause it can be a long-term relationship. We can be delivering their projects for between one year and three years. Yeah. So we don't want to be delivering a project for a client who really doesn't align with us and what our values are.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: So I guess it's getting to know the client, what ticks their boxes, and then it's getting to know the project.
Susan: What is it about the project that we want to deliver? Why does it align with us? And, and what value can we bring to that project?
Deb: So it really is about that mutual benefit, the mutual alignment.
Susan: Mm. The alignment
Deb: of values of, um, culture. [00:03:00] Would you, would you say that their first interaction with you is a reflection of, of what they will get with adco, for example?
Susan: Yes, it is. It's also about. Them wanting to know more about ADCO after that first interaction. Yep.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: So it's enough of an introduction to them that they wanna find out more, they wanna meet more of the team. Yep. But it's also important for them to meet someone in our team that they can elevate issues to.
Susan: So for example, in our setup, that would be our state manager.
Deb: Yep.
Susan: It's also important for them to meet him, to understand how those issues would be resolved. I mean, it would be lovely for us all to sit back and say, there's never gonna be an issue on a project, but let's face it,
Deb: that's not the reality
Susan: of the situation.
Susan: That's not the reality of it. Yeah. So it's important for them to know the full team. I will always step back and do a project once it's in delivery to say, are you getting what I promised you we'd get?
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: Um, and I think it's important for the client to know that it's not just delivering a project and building No.
Susan: It's a full on relationship with the
Deb: team and it's opening a [00:04:00] door to a long term relationship.
Susan: Absolutely.
Deb: One project at a time.
Susan: Yes.
Deb: Yeah. Fabulous. So, in an industry where everybody is trying to build relationships with the same clients, what do you think differentiates meaningful, trusted engagement and relationships from something that's really surface level?
Susan: It's about knowing your client in depth. It's the person, it's the organisation, it's their business operations, it's their prior projects. What's happened on their prior projects? The good and the bad
Deb: and the ugly.
Susan: Yep. I wasn't gonna say that. I
Deb: did.
Susan: So it's about, you know, what drives them. You know, we've got some clients where it's all about the programme.
Susan: Yes. Cost is always gonna matter to everybody. If that programme is getting tight, there's acceleration measures that can be implemented.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: Whereas for other clients, it is all about the bottom line.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: You can often differentiate who those clients are gonna be, but that's where getting to [00:05:00] know your client matters.
Deb: Yes.
Susan: Upfront.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: And it's the person, it's the company.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: It's understanding what keeps them awake at night.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: You know, when I say to someone, what keeps you awake at night? They kind of look at me like, what's it to you?
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: When I asked a client that once, he said, it's worrying about the safety on site.
Deb: There you go. And you get to that depth. Yeah. That depth that you actually want. And then you can explore that with open questions and you can actually get to a specificity that lets you respond at a deeper level. Mm. Lets you show your ability to engage at that deeper level.
Susan: Mm.
Deb: I I think a lot of people think that, you know, business development is this, is this surface level.
Deb: Just, hello, I am this organisation and you want to work with me. And they treat it like it's sales, but it's not.
Susan: It's
Deb: not sales. Sales. Oh
Susan: my gosh.
Deb: It is not sales. No. You're not selling widgets. You're not selling, you are selling the fundamental culture of an organisation and the team that will deliver for a client.
Susan: [00:06:00] Yeah.
Deb: And it's deep and you have to have searching, trusting relationships, it's relationship to get the information that you need.
Susan: It's definitely relationship driven. So anyone who thinks that they can go to an open tender forum, pick off a tender and think that they're gonna do it and win it.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: They're kidding. They're
Deb: really kidding themselves.
Susan: I mean, very early in my career, um, I saw an eeo, I advertised, this is when it was advertised in the career mail back in the day.
Deb: Oh. Showing our age there. Yeah.
Susan: And I looked at this project and I thought, oh, that's so up our alley. Mm-hmm. Like, we can absolutely respond with a smashing EOI for that.
Susan: Mm. Sent the EOI in and we didn't make the shortlist for the tender. And I was absolutely devastated.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: And I happened to know someone in that department through like outside of work.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: And he was kind enough to have a coffee with me one day and he said, we had never heard of you before.
Deb: Yes.
Susan: So he said, we knew the companies we wanted on that tender list.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: And he said, we'd never heard of your organisation. And [00:07:00] Sure. From the EOI on paper, yes, you could have delivered the project.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: But I didn't know anyone in the organisation. So he said, you, you weren't gonna make it.
Deb: And this is something about pursuit that I think technology can never make up for.
Deb: Like that human to human interaction. That human to human depth of relationship and trust and the strategy then that comes from that relationship. It's, it's always going to come to the fore. I'm actually hoping in this age of technology, we are finding ourselves in that it will come to the fore even more.
Deb: I, I have this really kind of enhanced positive perspective on it, that maybe it will actually elevate our humanity, um, and make relationships even more important than they already are.
Susan: Mm.
Deb: I know there's a lot of people that are being pessimistic about it, but I'm going with the optimist. I, I'm, I've always been glass overfloweth rather than half full.
Deb: So I'm going there.
Susan: But it's, it's definitely the relationship. You can't just [00:08:00] have your business development function being AI scanning a list of tender websites to go, oh, here's a tender and hoping that aligns with our project values, our geographic regions, and our sectors. Great. Let's pick it up and do it.
Susan: Yeah. And think you've got any hope of winning it.
Deb: Not when you're in a competitive landscape, not when you're in a competitive context where the difference actually might be that subjectivity. It might not be what's on paper, it might not be those stated requirements. It might just be that little bias that you only you are aware of.
Susan: Mm.
Deb: Or that little objective or that tiny little bumblebee that is a mosquito that is keeping that person awake at night that only you know about because you bother to ask them the question in the first,
Susan: first place. You've asked them the question and you've introduced your team. And a lot of these can come down to even personalities.
Deb: Yep.
Susan: Because let's face it, if you are building quite a straightforward project, there's a lot of people out there who can build that for you.
Deb: Yes.
Susan: And I'm pretty sure there'll be. [00:09:00] On programme, on budget, but it comes down to the personalities you're going to do. You wanna build
Deb: with that person.
Susan: Exactly.
Susan: Yeah. Do you wanna interact with that person? Yeah. Probably every day of every week throughout that programme. Three
Deb: years, yes. Absolutely.
Susan: And that can be a really deciding factor.
Deb: There's an an openness that organisations need to have with themselves. Also to ask the question about who your clients don't want to work with.
Deb: And I'm not saying there's anyone at adco, I love adco, but I have had clients where I've had to say, have you actually in your front end asked, is there anyone you would prefer not to work with?
Susan: Mm, I've asked that question. Yeah.
Deb: Have you?
Susan: I've had very honest answers. Okay. And it has dictated the team that we put in our tender.
Deb: Yeah. Good. Because not everybody is everyone else's cup of tea.
Susan: And if they've worked with them before in a previous life
Deb: mm-hmm. It can also cause tension.
Susan: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we're not robots.
Deb: No.
Susan: It's not a negative thing to say. That person can't work with that person. [00:10:00] You know, some people view it as negative, it's just the reality of life.
Susan: Yep. You know, not everybody gets on with everybody. Absolutely. It can be deciding factor,
Deb: it can be. I am really curious to know what you prioritise beyond capability, because you said, you know, a lot of organisations can build something on time and budget and obviously in the construction game you have a supplier and a subcontractor network that is also accessed by other organisations.
Deb: So what do you look at beyond that base level capability?
Susan: You know, ADCO is built on family values and trust and we, and
Deb: it is a genuinely family owned company. They're in it, they're in it all the time. A
Susan: hundred percent.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: They know the in depth of what is happening day by day in every office. Yeah.
Susan: That ADCO has.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: So
Deb: they know how the dogs are in every office.
Susan: They do.
Deb: They do.
Susan: Yeah. And the dogs know them as well, so always up for a cuddle. But when it comes to the relationships, the relationships go all round from our clients to our design consultants, to our [00:11:00] internal team, to our trade partners.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: And that matters massively when it comes to them choosing which contractor are we going to align with. Mm-hmm. There might be four or six contractors tendering the project.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: And we want to know that our preferred consultants, trade partners are going to wanna align with us.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: So, you know, there's sometimes there's opportunities to lock contractors, to lock your consultants away exclusively.
Susan: There's not always that opportunity.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: You, we wanna know that our consultants are the ones that we prefer to work with.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: We have strong trade partner relationships such that, you know, we don't wanna get litigious when there's a problem. We wanna all be able to sit down around a table mm-hmm.
Susan: As adults.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: Work through whatever the problem is, contract
Deb: the draw, let's talk through to a solution.
Susan: What's the solution?
Deb: Yeah,
Susan: exactly. So,
Deb: and you have depth of relationships with [00:12:00] your subcontractors and trade partners that have allowed you to be exclusive with them at a tender period. And, and that's actually a phenomenal reflection of the quality of the relationship.
Deb: What do you put that down to?
Susan: I put it down to the, it comes back to the personal relationships, you know, where they've worked with us previously and enjoyed the process.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: It's not just having fun at
Deb: work.
Susan: Well, we've gotta, don't we? Yeah. You know, and it's not about cheapest price gets you there, it's about reliability.
Susan: You know, how have they performed in the past? Yeah. Because there's been times when we may have chosen the cheapest trade partner and it has, they have not performed.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: So their performance then reflects in our performance to our client.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: So we are not going to run with trade partners who have not performed for us in the past.
Deb: Yeah. And I can, I mean, I can vouch for the fact as a consultant to ACO over many years now, I'm [00:13:00] treated well, I'm respected, I'm paid on time.
Susan: Mm.
Deb: And you know, as a small business, and most of most trades are, you know, small to medium enterprise business, the respect for the fact that those trades have cash flow that they need to meet.
Susan: Mm.
Deb: That goes an awfully long way to, to saying, I've been approached by three organisations, but yes, I wanna work with you.
Susan: Mm.
Deb: So, yep. I'm vouching for it. Absolutely.
Susan: And you know, the cheapest prices that organisation goes outta business partway through the project.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: That is a massive upheaval, not just to working out what has been delivered so far, what scope is remaining, finding another trade partner to come on board, take over that scope.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: They've then gotta potentially work out who is responsible for the price scope. Mm-hmm. It's about like, there's just so much to it. Your programme is then gonna run late, you're gonna pay more for the next trade coming in. Yeah.
Deb: And the flow on effect to the reputation with your core client is enormous.
Deb: So if you get that right at the beginning, then the relationship [00:14:00] is going to stay firm, stay strong, and you'll be able to work through those issues together.
Susan: Yeah. And so it sort of goes back to our prior question.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: It all comes down to the personal relationships. Yeah. You know, those people who are gonna represent those trade partners or those design consultants or those clients
Deb: mm-hmm.
Susan: Are they the types of people and are they the types of cultures and values that we wanna work with?
Deb: Absolutely. So before the probity curtain drops, how do you strategically and effectively shape the opportunity itself? Because there's two layers of tender strategy, there's how you respond to the document once it drops, but then there's, how do you actually pre-position the document to some extent to reflect what you need?
Susan: Well, I guess it comes back to that conversation of understanding your client first. And it's about knowing as much about the project as you can in the upfront. You know, early days.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: And generally, you know about a project coming for quite a long time. Yeah. Good. [00:15:00] Before it drops.
Deb: Good 12 months in advance, one would hope Exactly.
Deb: In your sector at least. Yes.
Susan: Yeah. And so there's, there's a lot of time to understand what's in the project, why has it been designed the way it's been designed, what sort of risks and opportunities have been explored previously.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: You know, the budget, the programme, what are their concerns that we need to deal with during the tender.
Susan: Mm-hmm. I mean, the last thing we want to do is put forward this amazing idea to find out it's already been put forward by someone and squashed.
Deb: Yeah. Well, they're just not interested.
Susan: They're just not interested in that. Yeah. So that's where, you know, it comes back to that understanding your client and understanding the project upfront.
Susan: Yeah. What matters. You know, sometimes I'll say, well, uh, what's your level of Green Star on the project?
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: For some clients that's, that's just not even on their radar. No. Depending on what type of project, it's
Deb: whatever we can achieve. Yeah,
Susan: exactly.
Deb: And for some it's gonna be six star, green star. We wanna be the front runners in wellness or something.
Susan: Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so different things matter to different [00:16:00] people. And to be honest, the probity curtain, you know, once it drops, if you don't know what you need to know about the project by then
Deb: mm-hmm.
Susan: Be questioning. Exactly. Yeah. I'd be questioning do you really know enough about the project to know that it's something you wanna build.
Deb: Yeah, absolutely. You gather a lot of intelligence, um, during prete engagement, client priorities, pressure stakeholders. What's keeping people awake at night? How do you make sure that tangibly. Is applied. So I, I work with a number of organisations where business development operations and tendering aren't intertwined enough.
Deb: Aren't integrated enough. And so that information is not shared or applied at the tender phase. How do you make sure all this knowledge you've gone out and garnered, I mean, you've drunk a lot of caffeine by this time. Yeah. Or green tea or, or you know, maybe a glass of wine. Wine now coffee and then lucky you like coffee.
Deb: But all this information you've gathered over [00:17:00] that 12 to 18 month period of time, how do you make sure it actually then influences what comes out the other end of a tender? It's really applied
Susan: At adco we have a lot of repeat clients.
Deb: Right.
Susan: And so getting to know the client and their values, I wouldn't say it's boxed off, but if you've worked for them previously, you've understood a lot more about that throughout the delivery of the past project.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: And so it's coming up to the next project. Who's the person involved? Is it the same person? What type of project is it? But with that intelligence, you've gotta do something with it.
Deb: Yes.
Susan: It's no point in me getting it and having this fantastic pursuit plan and then like locking it away in the drawer and going, right, I've ticked my box, I've done the pursuit plan, but if I haven't shared it with the potential team that's gonna deliver the project, the potential team that's gonna estimate the project.
Susan: What about the design manager? What about the bid manager?
Deb: Yep.
Susan: How are they all preparing the tender to respond to that intel?
Deb: Yep.
Susan: It's about me sharing all of that intel that's come out of all of those coffee meetings.
Deb: Yep.
Susan: [00:18:00] With the people involved in writing the tender, preparing our proposal, preparing our smarts.
Deb: Yep.
Susan: You know, to respond to that information.
Deb: Yep.
Susan: Otherwise, what's the point of having it? Then
Deb: you've got intelligence knowing inte, intelligence translating into strategy, strategy, translating into application solution development. And even before when you said, you know, we even the six star green star, or whatever it happens to be.
Deb: Or you've proposed something really smart and really innovative that the client doesn't want. If in your intelligence gathering you know exactly what the client's definition of innovation is, you feed that through. They're not gonna put in something that the client doesn't want. That's way too innovative or way too risky for them.
Deb: Mm. Because there's a translation of that intelligence to strategy to solution. Sometimes I think people, um, because they treat BD like sales, they, they underestimate how intelligence and strategy can actually guide behaviour. Mm. It [00:19:00] gives you the guardrails to tell your team. Don't go off on that tangent.
Deb: And it gives the bid managers and the bid directors and the construction managers in, in your case as well, the opportunity to say to consultants like architects sometimes. Oh, that's really wonderful. But that doesn't fit with the strategy. Let's pull it back. That doesn't fit with what we know about our client.
Deb: Let's pull it back.
Susan: And sometimes I don't have the answers.
Deb: Yes.
Susan: But I've learned along the way to ask my team the questions. I'll spend a lot of time when I'm putting a pursuit plan together and I've got all that intel over all those coffees, and I'm sitting there putting my bullet point list down saying, well, this is what I know.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: Sometimes I'll just put questions in there saying, what's something we can do to really unravel this for them? Is there anything we can do? I'm not a builder.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: You know, and I know that some of my industry colleagues in this role, they are builders.
Deb: Yes.
Susan: But you know, sometimes it comes to spending time with our delivery teams out on site, on our existing [00:20:00] projects to say, well, what have you done there?
Susan: Why have you done it that way?
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: What did that achieve for the client?
Deb: Really relying on their expertise
Susan: to guide it, their expertise.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: And as much as I actually just find it fascinating, the whole learning process of how our team is delivering the project.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: Some of those learnings I can then use in my next pursuit plan to go, well, that idea that we used over there because it had a similar problem, could we use that here?
Susan: And I'm also relying on our tendering team to also have spent time out on site with our projects in delivery to understand what they're doing and how they're doing it and why they're doing it. Yeah. So that we can use those smarts on the next one.
Deb: It's so lovely to hear that, that there's, there's this interm meshing of, of delivery and sight with the whole of the pursuit phase.
Susan: Mm.
Deb: Um, it's really wonderful to hear
Susan: the moment we've got a day in between tenders. You're
Deb: out there,
Susan: everybody's out, go out on site and talk to people.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: Yeah. Just going for a walk on site with someone from the delivery team to understand [00:21:00] what we're doing. Sometimes when I'm putting that pursuit plan together, I'm really sitting there thinking about.
Susan: If I was on the other side receiving this tender Mm, what do I wanna see?
Deb: Mm.
Susan: You know, someone who's going to partner with me to bring my project to fruition.
Deb: Yep.
Susan: And what are they going to do that's different? We all need to innovate these days. And a lot of people are allergic to that word. Innovate thinks, oh my goodness.
Susan: Innovation.
Deb: It can
Susan: just be a
Deb: tweak though.
Susan: It can be a tweak, it can be the tiniest little thing that might make it faster, cheaper, smarter,
Deb: better quality
Susan: and product, better
Deb: outcomes. Yeah, absolutely.
Susan: Yeah. So a lot of absolutely thinking time goes into it. You can't just be sitting there punching it out.
Susan: You've gotta allow yourself that time to think about the intel that you've got and what you can do with it.
Deb: And you've really reinforced two things that, that, that I've always thought about tendering and always told all of our clients. One is don't make [00:22:00] assumptions. Ask questions. Ask questions at all levels.
Deb: Ask questions of your client. Ask questions of your site people, your operational people, your management people, your hr. Ask all those questions. Ask open questions to get intelligence. Um, so don't make assumptions. And the second is, nobody can work in a vacuum. It doesn't matter which part of the tender lifecycle you live on.
Deb: Um, you need the knowledge of, of delivery. You need the knowledge of other experts. You can't work in a vacuum and just make stuff up. You have to draw on that. Mm-hmm. So you've just totally re love it when my own ideas are reinforced. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Look, Prete and tender effort is incredibly resource intensive.
Deb: This is the one, this concept of sunk cost. Yeah. When do you know when to walk away?
Susan: I'm learning to trust my gut a lot more.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: And if it just seems too good to be true, [00:23:00] probably it most likely is.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: You know, when the first you've heard about a project is someone coming and telling you, we've got this grand project and they've got this beautiful render and we've just lodged it for da, but council love it and we're actually gonna get going in a couple of months.
Susan: Um, are you good to tender it? You you have to sit back and question, well, how come I haven't heard of this before?
Deb: Right.
Susan: You know, if you are where dis
Deb: come from,
Susan: if you are well connected in the industry and you haven't heard of a major project until, you know, maybe a month before it's gonna come out to tender.
Susan: You do have to question, is it real? Is the funding there? Are they, are there leases that need to be in place to get the tick box to go forward?
Deb: What are the real challenges and barriers here?
Susan: Yeah.
Deb: Oh, there's a cynic in you. There's a little bit of a cynic in you.
Susan: Oh, there is. And oftentimes I will try and squash it, but then in the reality of the months down the track, you might've [00:24:00] tried to squash that cynic because it really just does sound like a great opportunity.
Susan: But then if you are going to commit six weeks to tendering it, you've got estimators, design managers, bid managers, pre-con managers. Mm-hmm. Construction managers involved. There's a lot of cost in tendering it. So you want to know, A, the project's going proceed. B, you've got a fair chance as every, as anybody else on the tender panel to win it.
Deb: Mm. And that it's not going out to 27 other organisations that they've said exactly the same thing to. And they're not actually gonna shortlist it. They're just gonna long list the whole thing, which leads to another amount of investment. I think people really underestimate the upfront time, cost and investment it takes
Susan: to bid.
Susan: It's huge. It's huge.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: And more and more we are seeing projects get tended. That then don't go anywhere.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: You know, and if you, if you tender a project and you lose it, I'm not gonna say that's fine because it's not.
Deb: No.
Susan: But at [00:25:00] least the project is going ahead with somebody.
Deb: Yes.
Susan: You had a fair chance of winning a project that is going to be built.
Deb: Yes.
Susan: But when you tender projects and the project doesn't go anywhere
Deb: and it
Susan: shelves and it never gets built.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: And the industry as a collective, you've got full contractors who've each committed that six weeks of resources to it. Mm. That's a lot of time and money that is getting wasted.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: And people wonder why construction costs are going up.
Susan: You know, that's just one small element of it. If we're continuing to tender projects that don't get built.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: People should have a fair expectation of what price they're expecting.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: Before it goes to tender.
Deb: Get their ducks in the rope and their house in order. Many metaphors apply here before it actually goes out and make sure it's not too good to be true.
Deb: It's actually well thought through, um, and likely to come to fruition.
Susan: And if you see the other tenderers starting to drop out throughout the tender, one person might sit back and go, oh, that's awesome. You [00:26:00] know, it's now a one horse race or a two horse race.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: You've actually gotta ask yourself,
Deb: why.
Susan: What do they know that we maybe haven't uncovered yet?
Deb: Okay. Keep asking those questions.
Susan: If it's a great opportunity and other reputable contractors have decided to pull out,
Deb: it's likely to be for good reason.
Susan: You've gotta understand why. And, you know, maybe, maybe it's just that they've won a big project and their resources are being redirected to that and that's fine, but maybe they know something.
Deb: So let's say you're completely new to the industry or completely new to the state. So you've come from interstate or, or, um. What do you do to even get your foot near the door? How do you forge those relationships in the first place? Where are the avenues?
Susan: My idea would be joining some industry committees to get out there and, um, get to know people.
Susan: You can go to networking events and that's a good way to meet a broad range of people.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: And maybe through that you might meet a range of people and you know who you wanna hone in [00:27:00] on then and get to know more. And maybe that's then going and setting up that coffee to understand 'em a little bit more.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: But I find joining industry committees, you really get to have a deeper
Deb: connection
Susan: with people through those industry committees.
Deb: You have to be a little bit unafraid to ask for connections. So you have to be willing to say, Hey, there's no conflict here. So Susan, there's no conflict here. I actually was wondering, you know, it's in another industry that I'm trying, but do you know anyone that knows anyone that I can talk to about
Susan: mm-hmm.
Deb: And being unafraid just to ask. But you have to have a depth of relationship first.
Susan: Absolutely.
Deb: And that's, I think that's something for, for new people to the industry to understand about pursuit relationships. Take time to iterate over and over and over again. You can't expect to be in front of someone one time and then get the gig at the end of it.
Susan: A hundred percent.
Deb: You have to [00:28:00] meet them again and again. And it has to be genuine. It has to be forged on the basis of, of exactly what you've, you've said it earlier.
Susan: Mm.
Deb: Genuine alignment, genuine values, genuinely wanting to work with somebody.
Susan: Mm.
Deb: But they can't expect it to happen overnight. It's the old Pan Peanut.
Susan: It's not, it's not overnight.
Deb: Yeah. It's not gonna happen overnight, but it will happen.
Susan: No,
Deb: you've just gotta keep forging ahead and every No is an opportunity to learn from.
Susan: Yes. And if you build that rapport with someone, at the start, I was always told relationships take seven points of connection to build a good relationship.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: And that person needs to think about what their seven points of connection are.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: You know, what have they found out about that person in that first interaction? So say you're at a networking event, you've had your interactions, you've met people, you've decided that that person there you'd like to go and meet again.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: How are you going to make contact with them? And then say you get your coffee [00:29:00] meeting then, which is great to even get the coffee meeting. Absolutely. Tick. Tick. That is a big tick to be able to get someone to a one-on-one meeting with you.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: Don't just rock up to that meeting with an unplanned agenda.
Susan: What do you wanna walk away from that meeting having achieved?
Deb: Yep.
Susan: Is it knowing about them? Is it knowing their project pipeline?
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: Which is probably a bit much to try and understand in the first meeting. One
Deb: coffee. Yep.
Susan: What's your agenda meeting?
Deb: And it might be be something very small you walk away with, but that's what you build from.
Susan: Yep.
Deb: The the other thing suppose I'd added is don't ever walk away from a business development meeting thinking that's it at the meeting plan. The next point of engagement.
Susan: That's one of your seven,
Deb: it's one of your seven. The next point of engagement. And don't expect things to happen fast. I think this in, in this day and age of um, you know, a lack of attention and immediacy, instant gratification of everything.
Deb: Um, business relationships, pursuit relationships take time. I, I had a relationship that I actually built that I got nothing from for [00:30:00] seven years. Seven years. Met this guy in 2014, eventually got a gig from them in 2021. But I enjoyed the relationship for the entire seven years and once it came to fruition, it was well worth it.
Susan: Mm-hmm. That's why you've gotta have so many relationships.
Deb: Yep, yep,
Susan: yep. It's like fruit trees. They're not always going to bear fruit all of the time.
Deb: No.
Susan: But they might connect you to somewhere else. Like I see the industry as one big jigsaw.
Deb: Yep.
Susan: You know, and it's about putting the pieces of the puzzle together.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: And who can help you put those pieces of the puzzle together
Deb: and never burn a bridge. 'cause you never know when you might need it.
Susan: It's a small industry.
Deb: Absolutely. One final question. What do you love the most about what you do?
Susan: Oh, it's the thrill of the chase.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: It's the thrill of finding a new opportunity and then fast forwarding through the whole getting to know the client, getting to know the project, tendering the project, winning the project.
Susan: To which for all of the time that I've been in the [00:31:00] industry, which is quite a while, I still get so excited at that opportunity to win.
Deb: Mm-hmm.
Susan: But then it's seeing that project come to fruition, you know, this isn't paperwork that's getting pushed backwards and forwards. This is bricks and mortar.
Deb: Yep.
Susan: That's getting built to then see. The community use. And depending on what that is, whether it's a university building, a hospital, a shopping centre, mm. To know that you've played a part in bringing that project to fruition. And as I said, I'm not a builder, so my part is very minuscule in that process.
Deb: Mm.
Susan: But seeing that project at the end of the day that real people are using, I love it.
Deb: Yeah.
Susan: I love it.
Deb: Ah, thank you so much for coming on chasing the win and for providing us with your, your insights and your expertise. Um, it was wonderful talking to you and no doubt we will be having a coffee again very soon.
Susan: Hope so. Thank you, Deb, for the opportunity.
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